I am not personally obsessed by WWII or the Holocaust. It is part of history and should not be swept under the rug, but not the only part of history.

What all this has to do with the history of German immigration to central Texas I don't know. Associating German-Americans from Texas with WWII the first and only thing which pops into mind is Admiral Chester Nimitz, CinC of the Central Pacific theatre and a descendent of German immigrants. Born and raised in Fredricksburg I believe.

Perhaps you can explain a little paradox for me, Gerd? I've observed that German feel free to assail the US and Americans for our treatment of the Indians and black slaves, yet also often assert that the actions of the Third Reich as ancient history and have no relevance to modern Germany.

I can accept the former or the latter but not both together, given that slavery ended in 1863 and virtually all the Indian atrocities ended by 1900 - 45 years before the fall of Berlin.

If 1945 is 'ancient history' then why are 1861 and 1890 relevant?

I agree with your point about the rug. In my education in German high school, the Third Reich was very well covered and were taught to deal with our guilt.

Part of this continued learning process is about improving the present and future of this new multi-cultural German society. And "Vergangenheitsbewältigung" is part of it too, not living in the past, but coming to terms with one's past.

My point about WWII and German immigrants to Texas is that they were Germans, now Americans in Texas. And that their contributions towards American society are played down in US media and history books due the Thrid Reich - lumping all Germans between 1933-45. In 1992, an American high school student asked me whether there was a democracy in Germany?

So, if I am talking about freedom fighters, not all German immigrants in Texas, I mean those who were killed, resisted slave labor and were peaceful with the Indians, they are part of German-American history who are ignored and did fight a noble cause. I mean they came to the States with high hopes, because the nobles in Germany were oppressive, they wanted to free themselves from them.

Still, 1945 is not ancient history. But could it be that German "Vergangenheitsbewältigung" has been more progressive than American/British atrocities towards Native Americans and Africans?

German history and identity were partialy repressed in the US because of the World Wars. To take a banal example there is a bland substance sold in the US called 'American Cheese'. It was once called 'German Cheese' - until 1917.

Has German culture been 'swept under the rug' in the US? Not noticably from my perspective. I am German-American myself, with forebears from Franconia. I grew up in Milwaukee which is perhaps the most German of US cities. Milwaukee is famed for beer and sausage. Every summer there is an ethnic fest named 'German Fest' with German food, culture, and music. Milwaukee has at least 6 or 7 famous German restaurants - more than any other US city I believe.

I've visited the German areas of central Texas - again with a strong German flavor both architecturally and in a culinary sense. I've visited Eastern and Central Pennsylvania, another historical strongpoint of things German and Mittleeuropean. There is no sense of cultural repression in any of these places. If anything the opposite is true - German heritage is celebrated.

I will admit one thing - the 'German' heritage I saw in Pennsylvania and Texas was changed - it probably reminds me more of Alsace or the Sud Tirol than Bavaria. Call it 'Borderlands' German, Deutsch culture modified by other cultural influences.

Another thing which should be understood is that many of the German areas of the US were settled by political or religious dissenters. Carl Schurtz was an 1848 revolutionary in who emigrated to the US to have a political and military career (a Union General in the Civil War). Many of the Germans of Pennsylvanians were Anabaptists of various stripes (Amish, Mennonites, and now extinct Huttites). They fled Central Europe to gain religious freedom. Anabaptists also settled in the Winston-Salem area in North Carolina. Germans yes - but Germans with a difference.

Germans like this are likely to have mixed feelings about the mother country. They stick to cultural and culinary traditions but are very American in their politics & and interpretation of history.

That's what I don't understand, they fled Germany to gain religious freedom, because of the failed revolution. Many contributed significantly towards American society, but mainly because of the Third Reich are still culturally ignored today.

It's funny, I watched CNN yesterday, there was a news bit about the celebration of Indian warrior culture in Washington, in a indoor arena, probably the MCI Center. The reporter mentioned that Indians have the highest ethnic proportion in the military.

The message was: once they viewed the American flag as a symbol of their genocide, now they fight for it. There's another example of "Vergangenheitsbewältigung" gone awry.

I lived in Chicago for five years as a young kid, great city, never been to Milwaukee though, only heard about it's great beer and restaurants.

I don't agree that Germans are specially ignored, Gerd. No more than English, French, or any other groups are.

I think you are failing to grasp an essential point about the American mentality - we tend to see immigrants primarily as Americans. Particularly the ones who assimilate and influence the culture. Schurz is seen as an American, not primarily as a German. Is this wrong? I think not. Where did Carl Schurz spend most of his life and have virtually all his success as a man and a politician?

Similarly, Andrew Jackson is not seen as Scots-Irish or Abraham Lincoln as a Brit or Alexander Hamilton as a Jamaican or Henry Kissinger as a German. The Texas Deutsch were a strain of Amrican life and a part of American history and are remembered as such. Neither more or less important than other regional groups from other parts of Europe. And they are not more 'swept under the rug' than other such groups.

I think you're wrong here- there isn't much overall anti-German sentiment in the United States. It is, overall, very neutral and businesslike: certainly nothing like the english press of Germany, to say nothing of the

I really think this is a point where complaining is out of sorts; most of the complaining I see is directly related to smears like when Der Spiegal ran ads using Nazi-era "bloodsucker" imagery for US companies: you know, it wasn't a Hollywood movie that brought up the Nazis that time.

As for fascination with militarism: you must not get out much. Virtually every country outside Germany is fascinated with Nazi-era Germany. I know it may be a bit hard for you to understand this, but Nazi-Germany is a fascinating subject if you're not completely oppressed by its historical significance. The United States is a lightweight in these matters: The Uk, New Zealand, China, Spain, Brazil, Ireland, and ESPECIALLY Japan are utterly and completely fascinated with the subject, churning out full-time programming based on every aspect of the war. All of them (from my personal experience) are more directly fascinated by the subject than the US ever was. We just make more movies on it because...well, because we make more movies about everything.

It's maybe hard for you to understand the fascination from the outside because you're oppressed by the memory. I understand that. But you have to understand virtually everyone understands your country as an outsider does, and so they're both A) quicker to judge you, but also B) more detached from the conclusions (in other words, they admit "the Nazis looked cool" and could be impressed with their martial valor).

So, in conclusion: let's not whine about our treatment in the US press, shall we? Despite a few critical articles the US does not hate you or treat you particularly badly, and despite a few movies we're not all that much more nostalgic, on average, than anyone else. It helps if you nip this kind of self-pity in the bud.

"German freedom fighters" (in Texas presumably).

In what sense were they freedom fighters? Meusebach seems to have made a treaty with the Comanche for peace in the German areas, paying a rather large sum of money up front and another large sum each year to maintain the peace. Meusebach and the Texasdeutsch kept up the payments which meant that the Comanches took their depredations elsewhere, notably Mexico.

The point is that the Texasdeutsch did not fight - that was what the payments were for. Acording to Pat Patterson a lot of Texasdeutsch fought for the Confederacy - specifically in Hood's division. This despite most Texasdeutsch not being slave owner. Again this was a common pattern - most of the Confederate army were not slave owners.

Seems to me that the label of 'freedom-fighter' could more accurately be applied to the Northern Germans who faught under Carl Schurtz and others. They actively fought against slavery. But so did many others - notably free negroes.

See the movie 'Glory' for a wonderful portayal of a really forgotten group - Blacks who fought for the Union. Forgotten no longer....